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How to work at McDonald’s and still become a millionaire

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Brad Klontz was drawn to financial psychology after the tech bubble burst in the early 2000s.

Klontz had tried his hand at stock trading after seeing a friend earn more than $100,000 in one year. But he felt immense shame after the market crashed and his investments evaporated.

He set out to discover why he took such risks and how he could behave differently in the future.

Today, Klontz is a psychologist, a certified financial planner and an expert in behavioral finance. He is a member of the CNBC Financial Advisor Council and the CNBC Global Financial Wellness Advisory Board.

In his estimation, psychology is perhaps the biggest impediment to people’s financial success.

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Klontz’s new book, “Start Thinking Rich: 21 Harsh Truths to Take You from Broke to Financial Freedom” — co-authored with entrepreneur and social media influencer Adrian Brambila — aims to break down the mental barriers that get in the way of financial freedom.

CNBC chatted with Klontz about these “harsh truths” and why he says people earning a McDonald’s salary can still become millionaires by tweaking their mindset.

The conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

‘It’s all about the psychology’

Greg Iacurci: Why is psychology important when it comes to personal finance?

Brad Klontz: The basics of personal finance are actually quite simple. Financial literacy has its place, but I think it’s mostly [about] psychology.

Here’s my argument for that: The average American, the two biggest problems we have is we spend more than we make, and we don’t save and invest for the future. And I’ve literally yet to meet an adult who doesn’t know that they shouldn’t do those two things. So, everybody knows it. Nobody stays broke because they don’t know the difference between a Roth IRA and a traditional IRA. That’s not the problem we have.

It’s not really about the lack of knowledge. I think it’s all about the psychology. 

GI: So how does people’s psychology tend to get in the way?

BK: The biggest impediment: money scripts. Most people aren’t aware of their beliefs around money. And there’s a whole process for discovering what those are. Part of it is looking at your financial flashpoints: these early experiences you have around money or that your parents have had, or your grandparents have had. People tend to repeat the pattern in their family, or they go to the extreme opposite. 

The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

GI: You write very early in the book that there’s a difference between being broke and being poor. Can you explain the difference? 

BK: We’re talking about a poor mindset.

Being broke means you have no money. I’ve been broke, my co-author was broke, our families have been broke, a lot of people have been broke. We differentiate between being broke, which is a temporary condition, hopefully, to a poor mindset, which will keep you broke forever.

It’s not really related to money, because I know people who make six figures and multiple six figures, and they have a poor mindset. We all know stories of people who win the lottery, or they win a big sports contract or music contract, and then all of a sudden [the money is] gone. Why is it gone? They have a poor mindset. That’s the distinction we make.

GI: Does this suggest that people, no matter their socioeconomic circumstances, can lift themselves out of poverty if they adopt a rich mindset?

BK: Yes.

GI: Is that one of your “harsh truths”?

BK: Yeah. We frame it in different ways based on the [book] chapter titles. For example, “It’s not your fault if you were born poor, but it is your fault if you die poor.” That’s a pretty harsh reality that we’re throwing in people’s face.  

Adopt a ‘rich’ vs. ‘poor’ mindset

GI: What is a rich mindset?

BK: It’s an approach to life and an approach to money.

Some of it goes against our natural wiring. There’s a future orientation. You have to have a vision of the future. A poor mindset [is] really focused on the here and now, not really thinking about the future. And if you don’t have a clear vision of your future, you’re not going to save, you’re not going to invest, you’re not going to live below your means.

A rich mindset puts an emphasis on owning their time versus owning a bunch of stuff. A poor mindset, as we describe it, [is] very willing to trade time for stuff.

GI: What do you mean by that?

BK: A poor mindset is like, I want this fancy car. And I’m very willing to work an extra 10 hours a week so I can drive that car around. And the problem with that is that mindset goes everywhere: “I’m gonna buy the biggest house I can get, I’m gonna get the nicest clothes I can get, a big watch.” And then people have no net worth. They’re not saving any net worth.

Accounting for the Human Factor

Meanwhile, a rich mindset is like: How can I own as much time as possible? You might think of that as retirement, where I don’t need to work anymore to fund my life. They have a future orientation, and they think, “Every dollar I get, I’m taking some of that money and I’m going to put it over here so that I can own my time and eventually have that money fund my entire life.”

One of the ‘most destructive beliefs about money’

How to work at McDonald’s and be a millionaire

GI: So what is the No. 1 thing people can do to save themselves?

BK: The first part is embracing some of these harsh realities: Your political party is not going to save you. Your corporation doesn’t care about you. Your beliefs about money are keeping you poor.

These are all meant, in different ways, to just help you shift from an external locus of control to an internal locus of control: The outcomes I’ve been getting in my life are because of me. It’s because of what I did, what I didn’t do, what I didn’t know. It’s a difficult mindset to grasp.  

You need to wake up to the fact that it doesn’t matter who the president is in terms of your financial freedom. None of them are going to make you financially free. They’re not going to send you a check. Your company? They don’t want you to be financially free. The replacement cost for you is really high. Your teachers can’t teach you to do that. They can teach you history and English. But they’re not financially free themselves.

The bottom line is, you have to do this yourself.

Then the next question is, well, what am I supposed to do? And that’s where we want to get people, because that’s a much easier answer.

Bradley T. Klontz, Psy.D., CFP, is an expert in financial psychology, behavioral finance and financial planning.

Courtesy Bradley T. Klontz

GI: And what is the answer?

BK: The answer is really, really simple.

Here’s the rich mindset: $1 comes into your life; you are going to put a percentage of that towards your financial freedom before you do anything else.

You can work at McDonald’s your entire life and be a millionaire if you have that mindset.

Save 30% of your income — or get a roommate

GI: What is the percentage people should be aiming for?

BK: It just depends on how rich you want to be and how fast you want to be rich. That determines the percentage. You’ll hear personal finance experts say you should be saving and investing at least 10% of everything you make. I advocate for 30%; that’s what I shot for, just because I think it helps you get there faster.

And people are like, “Oh my gosh, 30%.” Well, it’s real easy before you get your first job if you have this mindset. It’s real tough if you’ve designed your entire life around 100% of your paycheck. That’s where you have to make cuts.

We have a chapter on cutting expenses. It’s called “Get a roommate, get on the bus, get sober, get bald, and get a side hustle or shut up about being poor.”

We [hear] this all the time: “I can’t afford to invest.” We’re calling bulls— on it. Yes, you can.

We looked at the average amount that Americans spend on rent, on cars, on going to the salon, and on alcohol. Two thousand dollars a month is average rent; if you have a roommate, it cuts it down to $1,000. Just that alone, if you invested the difference, in 25 years you’d have $1.3 million. Now, if you had three roommates, it would go all the way up to $2 million. Just think about that. You now are a multimillionaire just from that, doing nothing else. And by the way, that’s average market returns.

But then when you add in: Take the bus, stop drinking alcohol, shave your head? [That’s] $2.8 million in 25 years.

GI: If you do all those things?

BK: If you do all those things. That’s just one roommate, riding the bus, not drinking alcohol and not going to the salon — watch YouTube [or] get your friend to cut your hair. The richest people I know, this is the kind of stuff they do. And yeah, $2.8 million.

I would say to you all: That sounds terrible.

OK, so why don’t you just go ahead and invest 30% of every dollar you make? Then you don’t have to do any of that s—. If that’s your mindset, it’s impossible for you not to become a millionaire. Unless you do something stupid, like take your investments and do something crazy.

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Personal Finance

Top 10 S&P 500 stock winners since Election Day

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Stock traders on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.

Michael M. Santiago | Getty Images News | Getty Images

Many large U.S. companies have seen their stocks swell since the presidential election.

The top 10 performing stocks in the S&P 500 index saw returns of 18% or more since Election Day, according to data provided by S&P Global Market Intelligence, which analyzed returns based on closing prices from Nov. 5 to Nov. 20.

Two companies — Axon Enterprise (AXON), which provides law-enforcement technology, and Tesla (TSLA), the electric-vehicle maker led by Elon Musk, an advisor to President-elect Donald Trump — saw their stocks gain more than 35%, according to S&P Global Market Intelligence.

By contrast, the S&P 500 gained about 2% over the same period.

‘Usually a bad idea’ to buy on short-term gain

Investors should be cautious about buying individual stocks based on short-term boosts, said Jeremy Goldberg, a certified financial planner, portfolio manager and research analyst at Professional Advisory Services, Inc., which ranked No. 37 on CNBC’s annual Financial Advisor 100 list.

“It’s usually a bad idea,” Goldberg said. “Momentum is a powerful force in the market, but relying solely on short-term price moves as an investment strategy is risky.”

Investors should understand what’s driving the movement and whether the factors pushing up a stock price are sustainable, Goldberg said.

Why did these stocks outperform?

Lofty stock returns were partly driven by Trump administration policy stances expected to benefit certain companies and industries, investment experts said.

Deregulation and a softer view toward mergers and acquisitions are two “key” themes driving bullish sentiment after Trump’s win, said Jacob Manoukian, head of U.S. investment strategy at J.P. Morgan Private Bank.

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Relying solely on short-term price moves as an investment strategy is risky.

Jeremy Goldberg

portfolio manager and research analyst at Professional Advisory Services, Inc.

Rosy earnings and AI

Likewise, Axon beat analysts’ estimates in its Nov. 7 earnings results, with officials touting its “AI era plan” and raising earnings guidance, Goldberg said.

Axon and Palantir stocks were up 38% and 22%, respectively, from Nov. 5 to Nov. 20, according to S&P Global Market Intelligence.

Some companies benefited from a combination of policy and earnings, experts said.

Rows of servers fill Data Hall B at Facebook’s Fort Worth Data Center in Texas.

Paul Moseley/Fort Worth Star-Telegram/Tribune News Service via Getty Images

Take Vistra Corp. (VST), an energy provider, for example. The company’s stock jumped 27% after Election Day.

Vistra is in talks with large data centers — or “hyperscalers” — in Texas, Pennsylvania and Ohio to build or upgrade gas and nuclear plants, Stacey Doré, Vistra’s chief strategy and sustainability officer, said on the company’s Q3 earnings call Nov. 7.

Tech companies are building more and more such data centers to fuel the AI revolution — and need to source increasing amounts of energy to run them.

The ‘Elon Musk premium’

President-elect Donald Trump and Elon Musk talk ring side during the UFC 309 event at Madison Square Garden on Nov. 16, 2024 in New York.

Chris Unger | Ufc | Getty Images

But Tesla stock has additional tailwinds, experts said.

For one, Trump wants to end a $7,500 federal tax credit for EVs. Scrapping that policy is expected to hurt Tesla’s EV rivals.

Tesla has also been developing technology for driverless vehicles. In Tesla’s recent earnings call, Musk said he’d use his influence in Trump’s administration to establish a “federal approval process for autonomous vehicles.”

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Personal Finance

Student loan legal battles delay SAVE borrowers’ path to forgiveness

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Matthias Ritzmann | The Image Bank | Getty Images

With the Biden administration’s new student loan repayment plan is tied up in legal battles, millions of borrowers have had their monthly payments put on hold.

The break from the bills is likely a relief to the many federal student loan borrowers enrolled in the Saving on a Valuable Education plan, known as SAVE. But it may also be causing them anxiety over the fact that they won’t get credit on their timeline to debt forgiveness.

For example, those also enrolled in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, who are entitled to loan cancellation after 10 years, have seen their journey toward that relief halted during the forbearance.

“Borrowers are frustrated about the delay toward forgiveness,” said higher education expert Mark Kantrowitz. “They feel like they’ve been waiting for Godot.”

Here’s what borrowers enrolled in SAVE should know about the delay to debt cancellation.

Delay could stretch on for months

In October, the U.S. Department of Education said that roughly 8 million federal student loan borrowers will remain in an interest-free forbearance while the courts decide the fate of the SAVE plan.

A federal court issued an injunction earlier this year preventing the Education Department from implementing parts of the SAVE plan, which the Biden administration had described as the most affordable repayment plan in history. Under SAVE’s terms, many people expected to see their monthly bills cut in half. 

The forbearance is supposed to help borrowers who were counting on those lower monthly bills. But unlike the Covid-era pause on federal student loan payments, this forbearance does not bring borrowers closer to debt forgiveness under an income-driven repayment plan or Public Service Loan Forgiveness.

Adding to borrowers’ annoyance is that “those enrolled in the SAVE Plan were not given the choice of forbearance,” said Elaine Rubin, director of corporate communications at Edvisors, which helps students navigate college costs and borrowing. If borrowers want to stay in SAVE, they can’t opt out of this pause.

Borrowers enrolled in PSLF are especially concerned, Kantrowitz said. That program requires borrowers to work in public service while they’re repaying their student loans.

“They have been working in a qualifying job, but aren’t making progress toward forgiveness,” he said. “Some borrowers are working a job they hate, but are sticking with it in the expectation of qualifying for forgiveness. Others are close to retirement and don’t want to have to work past their normal retirement age just to get the forgiveness.”

What borrowers can do

Despite the delay toward forgiveness, there are still a few good reasons for borrowers to stay enrolled in SAVE, experts say. During the forbearance, borrowers are excused from payments and interest on their debt does not accrue.

Keep in mind: Even if you make payments under SAVE during the forbearance, your loan servicer will just apply that money toward future payments owed once the pause ends, the Education Department says.

If you’re eager to be back on your way to debt cancellation, you have options.

You may be able switch into another income-driven repayment plan that is still available. Under that new plan, you may have to start making payments again. Yet if you earn under around $20,000 as a single person, your monthly payment could still be $0, and therefore you might not lose anything by switching, Kantrowitz said.

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Changing plans might be especially appealing to those who are very close to crossing the finish line to debt forgiveness and just want to see their balance wiped away, experts said. (You’ll likely be placed in a processing forbearance for a period while your loan servicer makes that switch. During that time, you will get credit toward forgiveness.)

The Education Department is also offering those who’ve been working in public service for 10 years the chance to “buy back” certain months in their payment history. This allows borrowers to make payments to cover previous months for which they didn’t get credit. But to be eligible for the option, the purchased months need to bring you to the 120 payments required for loan forgiveness.

“The buyback option might be eliminated under the Trump administration,” Kantrowitz said. “So, if you want to use it, you should use it now.”

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Personal Finance

The must-have gift of the season may be a ‘dupe’

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‘Tis the season for giving… dupes?

Buying a dupe — short for duplicates — rose to the top of this year’s holiday wish-lists. A dupe gift is a gift that is a cheaper alternative to a more expensive, branded item. They were largely kept under the radar until recently because a “fake” was dubbed inferior to the real thing, but a lot has changed.

In some cases these brand imitators are now even preferred to their pricier counterparts.

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This year, 79% of consumers said they would buy a dupe as a gift for their loved ones for the holidays, according to a survey of more than 1,000 shoppers by CouponCabin.

More than half — 51% — of those that the coupon site polled said dupes are better than the original.

Even when consumers can get the real thing, nearly 33% of adults intentionally purchased a dupe of a premium product at some point, a separate report by Morning Consult also found. The business intelligence company polled more than 2,000 adults in early October.

When is a dupe an appropriate gift? 

Before you buy a dupe, think about who you’re shopping for, experts say. 

For instance, some family members or friends might especially appreciate a dupe for what it is, said Ellyn Briggs, a brands analyst at Morning Consult. 

“It’s kind of a badge of honor for young people to get a dupe,” she said.

On the other hand, you risk disappointing someone if they have been asking for a specific product for a while, said Melanie Lowe, CouponCabin’s savings expert

If that is the case, consider the cost of the name-brand item and assess if it is within budget. The key is to know when to splurge or save, Lowe said.

“If you’re talking about a product that you’ll use daily… invest in the original,” Lowe said. “That purchase is usually worth it.”

Alternatively, “if it seems appropriate in the situation — if it is a more light-hearted gift — you can definitely go the dupe route,” she said. 

‘It’s a dupe for a reason’

While some shoppers take pride in buying dupes, roughly 86% of shoppers have been disappointed by their purchase of a dupe, CouponCabin found. 

“It’s a dupe for a reason,” said Lauren Beitelspacher, professor of marketing at Babson College. “We don’t know where it’s made, who is making it or the quality.”

Visa's View on the Holiday Shopping Season

Shopping secondhand this season

Consumers should make the same value considerations when buying secondhand, which has also become more popular, even for gifting.

Three in four shoppers said that giving secondhand gifts has become more accepted over the past year — notching a 7% increase from the year before, according to the 2024 OfferUp recommerce report. OfferUp, an online marketplace for buying and selling new and used items, polled 1,500 adults in July.

The majority, or 83%, of shoppers are also open to receiving secondhand gifts this holiday season, the report found.

Shoppers have increasingly turned to resale for a number of reasons, including value, sustainability and as a means to secure hard-to-find luxury items. Because secondhand shopping is considered eco-friendly, it’s also become more socially acceptable. OfferUp’s report credited Generation Z for driving a shift in mindset.

“The stigma around secondhand gifting is rapidly diminishing,” said Todd Dunlap, OfferUp’s CEO. 

However, the same buyer-beware mentality applies, cautioned Babson’s Beitelspacher, especially if you are ordering secondhand goods online. “You might not get what you want,” she said.

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