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Richard Behar exchanged emails with Bernie Madoff for a decade

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Richard Behar

Courtesy: Lizzie Cohen

You probably haven’t heard Bernie Madoff‘s name in awhile, but that doesn’t mean the infamous fraudster’s story is over, or the pain he inflicted.

Irving Picard, an 83-old court-appointed trustee, still spends his days trying to claw back money from the those who benefitted from Madoff’s Ponzi scheme, and to reduce the staggering losses of others.

More than 100 legal battles over the greatest known fraud in history still rage on.

Richard Behar, who has just published a new biography, “Madoff: The Final Word,” is also still trying to understand how Madoff’s mind worked. What allows a person to rip off Elie Wiesel, who survived the Holocaust and went on to become a main chronicler of it? Or to sit with his wife, Ruth, in a theater and enjoy a movie while knowing that he’s erased the life savings of thousands of people all over the world?

Those questions haunted Behar — who tells CNBC he has long been fascinated by con-artists. So long after most other reporters had turned their attention elsewhere, he reached out to Madoff while the financial criminal served out his 150-year prison sentence in North Carolina.

Richard Behar’s book ‘Madoff: The Final Word.’

Behar started by sending his condolences to Madoff, whose son, Mark, had just died by suicide in Dec. 2010, the second anniversary of his father’s arrest.

Shortly after, an email subject line popped up in Behar’s inbox: “Inmate: MADOFF, BERNARD L.” That message was the start to a decade-long relationship between the two men, including roughly 50 phone conversations, hundreds of emails and three in-person visits. When Madoff died in April 2021, Behar was still writing the biography. Madoff often complained to Behar that he was taking too long on the book.

“He once joked that he’d be dead when it came out, which of course turned out to be true, although I never planned it that way,” Behar said.

CNBC interviewed Behar, an award-winning journalist and contributing editor of investigations at Forbes, over email this month. (The conversation has been edited and condensed for style and clarity.)

‘He never asked me one personal question’

Annie Nova: You write that you’re an investigative reporter with “a special fondness for scammers.” Why do you think that is?

Richard Behar: I’ve always been mesmerized by how the brains of scammers work. I’m especially intrigued, maybe obsessed, with scammers who steal from people who are very close to them — like Madoff did.

A scamster who I visited in prison in the 1990s did something similar. Until Bernie’s arrest, this guy ran the lengthiest known Ponzi scheme ever, for 11 years. He was orphaned and raised by an aunt and uncle, and yet financially devoured them, as well as his cousins, his wife’s parents, his best friend — even a nun who he charmed with his alleged faith in god. I wasn’t raised by my biological parents either, and spent my childhood in foster homes. I couldn’t pretend to imagine doing that to people who stepped up to care for me, but it’s endlessly fascinating to me. Maybe that’s where that fondness for scammers is rooted.

Bernard Madoff arrives at Manhattan Federal court on March 12, 2009 in New York City.

Stephen Chernin | Getty Images News | Getty Images

AN: Did Madoff take any interest in your life?

RB: Through a nearly decade-long relationship, he never asked me one personal question. That was mind-boggling. I’d sometimes give him openings, like telling him I grew up in a town not far from his hometown — with a similar but poorer Jewish subculture — but he said nothing. He couldn’t care less. I asked a psychologist about this, and she theorized that Bernie was such a malignant narcissist that he couldn’t “hold my reality, he could only hold his own.” I couldn’t be a three-dimensional human being to him, because if he can imagine that, he’d have to imagine the school teacher who has lost a pension.

AN: What was the most remorse you saw him show over what he’d done?

RB: I once asked if he could ever forgive himself for the Ponzi itself, and he said “No, never.” He insisted he felt great remorse for those who he stole from. But I never totally felt it. Never a tear. I asked why he didn’t cry at his sentencing, and he snapped: “Of course I didn’t cry; I was cried out.”

‘Prison was a great relief for him’

AN: How did Madoff say life in prison changed him?

RB: He never talked about it. He once described himself as feeling numb. I said, “I can’t imagine what it would be like.” He replied, “You don’t want to know, you don’t want to know.”

In some ways, I think being in prison was a great relief for him. Running a half-century Ponzi has got to be exhausting. In prison, he’d typically wake up in his cell at around 4 a.m., make coffee in bed with an instant hot water machine, then read, or listen to NPR until breakfast. He worked in the kitchen, then the laundry room and then oversaw the inmates’ computer room.

That last job cracked me up because he told me he could barely turn a computer on in his office, which should have been a red flag to everyone at the company that he wasn’t actually trading stocks.

AN: You write that he was seeing a therapist in prison. Do we know often this was, or for how long it lasted? Did it seem to be helping him?

RB: He ended one phone chat abruptly because he had to get to one of his weekly appointments with his psychologist. When he called me afterwards, I asked how it went. He laughed and said it was helpful, that she was a “terrific lady” and that he thinks he should have done therapy years before. But even if the sessions were helpful, he said he never found the answers he sought about why he did the fraud and why he hurt so many people.

NEW YORK – MARCH 12: Financier Bernard Madoff passes the gathered press as he arrives at Manhattan Federal court on March 12, 2009 in New York City. Madoff was expected to plead guilty to all 11 felony charges brought by prosecutors on financial misdoings, and could end up with a sentence of 150 years in prison. 

Chris Hondros | Getty Images

He was disturbed by press reports that called him a sociopath. He said he asked his therapist, “Am I a sociopath? A lot of clients were friends and family — how could I do this?” Bernie claims that she told him that people have the ability to compartmentalize, like mobsters that kill and then go home and hold their kids.

You just put it out of your mind. I asked if she came up with a diagnosis. He said, no, just a compartmentalizer. Maybe she told him that to make him feel better since he wasn’t ever getting out.

AN: For so many years, it sounded like Madoff was just waiting to be caught. Is that right? Did he always know he wouldn’t be able to get away with this? What was living in that suspended state like for him?

RB: Bernie said he was under constant stress over the Ponzi, and would talk out loud to himself sometimes in the office, because of the pressure. One of his biggest outlets for relieving the stress was sitting in dark theaters with his wife Ruth, he said, watching movies twice a week. He also said he deluded himself into thinking some “miracle” would come along to bail him out of the Ponzi, but that he knew for at least the last decade before his arrest that he’d never get out from under it.

The only time he truly relaxed, he said, was on weekends when he was out on his yacht. I interviewed a former FBI behavioral analysis expert who suggested Bernie felt safe on the boat because he could see 360 degrees around him, all the way to the horizon, so he’d have a lot of forewarning that a threat was coming.

‘Not a single investor’ had complained to the SEC

AN: You paint a really interesting portrait of the figure of Irving Picard, an 83-year-old court-appointed trustee, who has spent years trying to get money back for Madoff’s investors. Has this been Picard’s only job over the years? Why has he made this his life mission?

RB: Picard rarely talks with the press. I was just chatting with John Moscow, a former chief white-collar crimes prosecutor for the Manhattan DA’s office who worked on some Madoff cases for the trustee. He said: “Irving is a very faithful public servant.” He’s laser focused on his task. John’s words were: “He’s not manic about it, but he’s very close.”

Disgraced investor Bernie Madoff dies in prison at age 82

In my book, I quote a former federal prosecutor saying that you can probe this case for 50 years and still not get to all the truths, but Picard isn’t interested in that. It’s been his only bankruptcy case since four days after Bernie’s arrest in 2008. He is ferocious towards net winners who won’t return funds, but he can be a soft teddy bear with those who don’t have the money for him to claw back. He may let them pay it over time, or he’ll take someone’s house but leave them a life interest in it.

AN: What do you think people get most wrong about Madoff?

RB: A lot of people who lost money get it wrong by blaming him entirely, rather than looking in the mirror and asking themselves how they could have put themselves in such danger. Madoff’s consistent and high returns were simply not possible. Even so, many net losers think the government owes them because the SEC didn’t capture Bernie. But that agency’s mandate has never been to protect people from stupid investment decisions.

Financier Bernard Madoff arrives at Manhattan Federal court on March 12, 2009 in New York City. Madoff is scheduled to enter a guilty plea on 11 felony counts which under federal law can result in a sentence of about 150 years. (Photo by Stephen Chernin/Getty Images)

Stephen Chernin | Getty Images

I mentioned to you that I went to a prison back in the ’90s to visit the guy who had the longest-running Ponzi prior to Madoff’s arrest. Just like Bernie, that swindler could not have done it without a big bank’s complicity. In that case — an 11-year-long Ponzi — an investor reached out to the SEC to complain that he’d lost money even though he’d been guaranteed a preposterous 20-25% return. The scamster was arrested the following day.

In Bernie’s case, not a single investor over the half-century of his fraud contacted the SEC. They were too busy splashing around in the gravy.

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There’s a key change coming to 401(k) catch-up contributions in 2025

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Many Americans face a retirement savings shortfall. However, setting aside more money could get easier for some older workers in 2025.

Enacted by Congress in 2022, the Secure Act 2.0 ushered in several retirement system improvements, including updates to 401(k) plans, required withdrawals, 529 college savings plans and more.

While some Secure 2.0 changes have already happened, another key change for “max savers,” will begin in 2025, according to Dave Stinnett, Vanguard’s head of strategic retirement consulting.

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Some 4 in 10 American workers are behind in retirement planning and savings, according to a CNBC survey, which polled roughly 6,700 adults in early August.

But changes to 401(k) catch-up contributions — a higher limit for workers age 50 and older — could soon help certain savers, experts say. Here’s what to know.

Higher 401(k) catch-up contributions

Employees can now defer up to $23,000 into 401(k) plans for 2024, with an extra $7,500 for workers age 50 and older.

But starting in 2025, workers aged 60 to 63 can boost annual 401(k) catch-up contributions to $10,000 — or 150% of the catch-up limit — whichever is greater. The IRS hasn’t yet unveiled the catch-up contribution limit for 2025.  

“This can be a great way for people to boost their retirement savings,” said certified financial planner Jamie Bosse, senior advisor at CGN Advisors in Manhattan, Kansas.

An estimated 15% of eligible workers made catch-up contributions in 2023, according to Vanguard’s 2024 How America Saves report.

Those making catch-up contributions tend to be higher earners, Vanguard’s Stinnett explained. But they could still have “real concerns about being able to retire comfortably.”

More than half of 401(k) participants with income above $150,000 and nearly 40% with an account balance of more than $250,000 made catch-up contributions in 2023, the Vanguard report found.

Roth catch-up contributions

Another Secure 2.0 change will remove the upfront tax break on catch-up contributions for higher earners by only allowing the deposits in after-tax Roth accounts.

The change applies to catch-up deposits to 401(k), 403(b) or 457(b) plans who earned more than $145,000 from a single company the prior year. The amount will adjust for inflation annually. 

However, IRS in August 2023 delayed the implementation of that rule to January 2026. That means workers can still make pretax 401(k) catch-up contributions through 2025, regardless of income.

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Holiday shoppers plan to spend more, while taking on debt this season

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Increase in consumer holiday spending expected this year, says Mastercard's Michelle Meyer

Americans often splurge on gifts during the holidays.

This year, holiday spending from Nov. 1 through Dec. 31 is expected to increase to a record total of $979.5 billion to $989 billion, according to the National Retail Federation.

Even as credit card debt tops $1.14 trillion, holiday shoppers expect to spend, on average, $1,778, up 8% compared to last year, Deloitte’s holiday retail survey found.

Meanwhile, 28% of holiday shoppers still haven’t paid off the gifts they purchased for their loved ones last year, according to another holiday spending report by NerdWallet

How shoppers pay for holiday gifts

Heading into the peak holiday shopping season, 74% of shoppers plan to use credit cards to make their purchases, NerdWallet found.

Another 28% will tap savings to buy holiday gifts and 16% will lean on buy now, pay later services. NerdWallet polled more than 1,700 adults in September.  

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Buy now, pay later is now one of the fastest-growing categories in consumer finance and is only expected to become more popular in the months ahead, according to the most recent data from Adobe. Adobe forecasts BNPL spending will peak on Cyber Monday with a new single-day-record of $993 million.

However, buy now, pay later loans can be especially hard to track, making it easier for more consumers to get in over their heads, some experts have cautioned — even more than credit cards, which are simpler to account for, despite sky-high interest rates.

The problem with credit cards and BNPL

To be sure, credit cards are one of the most expensive ways to borrow money. The average credit card charges more than 20% — near an all-time high.

Alternatively, the option to pay in installments can make financial sense, especially at 0%. 

And yet, buy now, pay later loans “are just another form of credit, disguised as something for free,” said Howard Dvorkin, a certified public accountant and the chairman of Debt.com.

The more BNPL accounts open at once, the more prone consumers become to overspending, missed or late payments and poor credit history, other research shows.

If a consumer misses a payment, there could be late fees, deferred interest or other penalties, depending on the lender. In some cases, those interest rates can be as high as 30%, rivaling the highest credit card charges. 

“This is just another way for financers to put their hands in the pocket of consumers,” Dvorkin said. “It’s a trojan horse.”

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Here’s why the U.S. retirement system isn’t among the world’s best

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The U.S. retirement system doesn’t get high marks relative to other nations.

In fact, the U.S. got a C+ grade and ranked No. 29 out of 48 global pension systems in 2024, according to the annual Mercer CFA Institute Global Pension Index, released Tuesday. It analyzed both public and private sources of retirement funds, like Social Security and 401(k) plans.

A similar index compiled by Natixis Investment Management puts the U.S. at No. 22 out of 44 nations this year. Its position has declined from a decade ago, when it ranked No. 18.

“I think [a C+ grade] would describe a rating where there is a lot of room for improvement,” said Christine Mahoney, global retirement leader at Mercer, a consulting firm.

The Netherlands placed No. 1, followed by Iceland, Denmark and Israel, respectively, which all received “A” grades, according to Mercer. Singapore, Australia, Finland and Norway got a B+.

Fourteen nations — Chile, Sweden, the United Kingdom, Switzerland, Uruguay, New Zealand, Belgium, Mexico, Canada, Ireland, France, Germany, Croatia and Portugal — got a B.

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Of course, retirement systems differ since they address a nation’s unique economies, social and cultural norms, politics and history, according to the Mercer report. However, there are certain traits that can generally determine how well older citizens fare financially, the report found.

The U.S. system is often referred to as a three-legged stool, consisting of Social Security, workplace retirement plans and individual savings.

The lackluster standing by the U.S. in the world is largely due to a sizable gap in the share of people who have access to a workplace retirement plan, and for the ample opportunities for “leakage” of savings from accounts before retirement, Mahoney said.

Employers aren’t required to offer a retirement plan like a pension or 401(k) plan to workers. About 72% of workers in the private sector had access to one in March 2024, and about half (53%) participated, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.  

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“The people who have [a plan], it’s probably pretty good on average, but you have a lot of people who have nothing,” Mahoney said.

By contrast, some of the highest-ranked countries like the Netherlands “cover essentially all workers in the country,” said Graham Pearce, Mercer’s global defined benefit segment leader.

Additionally, top-rated nations generally have greater restrictions relative to the U.S. on how much cash citizens can withdraw before retirement, Pearce explained.

American workers can withdraw their 401(k) savings when they switch jobs, for example.

About 40% of workers who leave a job cash out “prematurely” each year, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute. A separate academic study from 2022 examined more than 160,000 U.S. employees who left their jobs from 2014 to 2016, and found that about 41% cashed out at least some of their 401(k) — and 85% completely drained their balance.

Employers are also legally allowed to cash out small 401(k) balances and send workers a check.

While the U.S. might offer more flexibility to people who need to tap their funds in case of emergencies, for example, this so-called leakage also reduces the amount of savings they have available in old age, experts said.

“If you’re someone who moves through jobs, has low savings rates and leakage, it makes it difficult to build your own retirement nest egg,” said David Blanchett, head of retirement research at PGIM, Prudential’s investment management arm.

Social Security is considered a major income source for most older Americans, providing the majority of their retirement income for a significant portion of the population over 65 years old.

To that point, about nine out of 10 people aged 65 and older were receiving a Social Security benefit as of June 30, according to the Social Security Administration.

Social Security benefits are generally tied to a worker’s wage and work history, Blanchett said. For example, the amount is pegged to a worker’s 35-highest years of pay.

While benefits are progressive, meaning lower earners generally replace a bigger share of their pre-retirement paychecks than higher earners, Social Security’s minimum benefit is lesser than other nations, like those in Scandinavia, with public retirement programs, Blanchett said.

“It’s less of a safety net,” he said.

“There’s something to be said that, as a public pension benefit, increasing the minimum benefit for all retirees would strengthen the retirement resiliency for all Americans,” Blanchett said.

That said, policymakers are trying to resolve some of these issues.

For example, 17 states have established so-called auto-IRA programs in a bid to close the coverage gap, according to the Georgetown University Center for Retirement Initiatives.

These programs generally require employers who don’t offer a workplace retirement plan to automatically enroll workers into the state plan and facilitate payroll deduction.

A recent federal law known as Secure 2.0 also expanded aspects of the retirement system. For example, it made more part-time workers eligible to participate in a 401(k) and raised the dollar threshold for employers to cash out balances for departing workers.

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