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Richard Behar exchanged emails with Bernie Madoff for a decade

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Richard Behar

Courtesy: Lizzie Cohen

You probably haven’t heard Bernie Madoff‘s name in awhile, but that doesn’t mean the infamous fraudster’s story is over, or the pain he inflicted.

Irving Picard, an 83-old court-appointed trustee, still spends his days trying to claw back money from the those who benefitted from Madoff’s Ponzi scheme, and to reduce the staggering losses of others.

More than 100 legal battles over the greatest known fraud in history still rage on.

Richard Behar, who has just published a new biography, “Madoff: The Final Word,” is also still trying to understand how Madoff’s mind worked. What allows a person to rip off Elie Wiesel, who survived the Holocaust and went on to become a main chronicler of it? Or to sit with his wife, Ruth, in a theater and enjoy a movie while knowing that he’s erased the life savings of thousands of people all over the world?

Those questions haunted Behar — who tells CNBC he has long been fascinated by con-artists. So long after most other reporters had turned their attention elsewhere, he reached out to Madoff while the financial criminal served out his 150-year prison sentence in North Carolina.

Richard Behar’s book ‘Madoff: The Final Word.’

Behar started by sending his condolences to Madoff, whose son, Mark, had just died by suicide in Dec. 2010, the second anniversary of his father’s arrest.

Shortly after, an email subject line popped up in Behar’s inbox: “Inmate: MADOFF, BERNARD L.” That message was the start to a decade-long relationship between the two men, including roughly 50 phone conversations, hundreds of emails and three in-person visits. When Madoff died in April 2021, Behar was still writing the biography. Madoff often complained to Behar that he was taking too long on the book.

“He once joked that he’d be dead when it came out, which of course turned out to be true, although I never planned it that way,” Behar said.

CNBC interviewed Behar, an award-winning journalist and contributing editor of investigations at Forbes, over email this month. (The conversation has been edited and condensed for style and clarity.)

‘He never asked me one personal question’

Annie Nova: You write that you’re an investigative reporter with “a special fondness for scammers.” Why do you think that is?

Richard Behar: I’ve always been mesmerized by how the brains of scammers work. I’m especially intrigued, maybe obsessed, with scammers who steal from people who are very close to them — like Madoff did.

A scamster who I visited in prison in the 1990s did something similar. Until Bernie’s arrest, this guy ran the lengthiest known Ponzi scheme ever, for 11 years. He was orphaned and raised by an aunt and uncle, and yet financially devoured them, as well as his cousins, his wife’s parents, his best friend — even a nun who he charmed with his alleged faith in god. I wasn’t raised by my biological parents either, and spent my childhood in foster homes. I couldn’t pretend to imagine doing that to people who stepped up to care for me, but it’s endlessly fascinating to me. Maybe that’s where that fondness for scammers is rooted.

Bernard Madoff arrives at Manhattan Federal court on March 12, 2009 in New York City.

Stephen Chernin | Getty Images News | Getty Images

AN: Did Madoff take any interest in your life?

RB: Through a nearly decade-long relationship, he never asked me one personal question. That was mind-boggling. I’d sometimes give him openings, like telling him I grew up in a town not far from his hometown — with a similar but poorer Jewish subculture — but he said nothing. He couldn’t care less. I asked a psychologist about this, and she theorized that Bernie was such a malignant narcissist that he couldn’t “hold my reality, he could only hold his own.” I couldn’t be a three-dimensional human being to him, because if he can imagine that, he’d have to imagine the school teacher who has lost a pension.

AN: What was the most remorse you saw him show over what he’d done?

RB: I once asked if he could ever forgive himself for the Ponzi itself, and he said “No, never.” He insisted he felt great remorse for those who he stole from. But I never totally felt it. Never a tear. I asked why he didn’t cry at his sentencing, and he snapped: “Of course I didn’t cry; I was cried out.”

‘Prison was a great relief for him’

AN: How did Madoff say life in prison changed him?

RB: He never talked about it. He once described himself as feeling numb. I said, “I can’t imagine what it would be like.” He replied, “You don’t want to know, you don’t want to know.”

In some ways, I think being in prison was a great relief for him. Running a half-century Ponzi has got to be exhausting. In prison, he’d typically wake up in his cell at around 4 a.m., make coffee in bed with an instant hot water machine, then read, or listen to NPR until breakfast. He worked in the kitchen, then the laundry room and then oversaw the inmates’ computer room.

That last job cracked me up because he told me he could barely turn a computer on in his office, which should have been a red flag to everyone at the company that he wasn’t actually trading stocks.

AN: You write that he was seeing a therapist in prison. Do we know often this was, or for how long it lasted? Did it seem to be helping him?

RB: He ended one phone chat abruptly because he had to get to one of his weekly appointments with his psychologist. When he called me afterwards, I asked how it went. He laughed and said it was helpful, that she was a “terrific lady” and that he thinks he should have done therapy years before. But even if the sessions were helpful, he said he never found the answers he sought about why he did the fraud and why he hurt so many people.

NEW YORK – MARCH 12: Financier Bernard Madoff passes the gathered press as he arrives at Manhattan Federal court on March 12, 2009 in New York City. Madoff was expected to plead guilty to all 11 felony charges brought by prosecutors on financial misdoings, and could end up with a sentence of 150 years in prison. 

Chris Hondros | Getty Images

He was disturbed by press reports that called him a sociopath. He said he asked his therapist, “Am I a sociopath? A lot of clients were friends and family — how could I do this?” Bernie claims that she told him that people have the ability to compartmentalize, like mobsters that kill and then go home and hold their kids.

You just put it out of your mind. I asked if she came up with a diagnosis. He said, no, just a compartmentalizer. Maybe she told him that to make him feel better since he wasn’t ever getting out.

AN: For so many years, it sounded like Madoff was just waiting to be caught. Is that right? Did he always know he wouldn’t be able to get away with this? What was living in that suspended state like for him?

RB: Bernie said he was under constant stress over the Ponzi, and would talk out loud to himself sometimes in the office, because of the pressure. One of his biggest outlets for relieving the stress was sitting in dark theaters with his wife Ruth, he said, watching movies twice a week. He also said he deluded himself into thinking some “miracle” would come along to bail him out of the Ponzi, but that he knew for at least the last decade before his arrest that he’d never get out from under it.

The only time he truly relaxed, he said, was on weekends when he was out on his yacht. I interviewed a former FBI behavioral analysis expert who suggested Bernie felt safe on the boat because he could see 360 degrees around him, all the way to the horizon, so he’d have a lot of forewarning that a threat was coming.

‘Not a single investor’ had complained to the SEC

AN: You paint a really interesting portrait of the figure of Irving Picard, an 83-year-old court-appointed trustee, who has spent years trying to get money back for Madoff’s investors. Has this been Picard’s only job over the years? Why has he made this his life mission?

RB: Picard rarely talks with the press. I was just chatting with John Moscow, a former chief white-collar crimes prosecutor for the Manhattan DA’s office who worked on some Madoff cases for the trustee. He said: “Irving is a very faithful public servant.” He’s laser focused on his task. John’s words were: “He’s not manic about it, but he’s very close.”

Disgraced investor Bernie Madoff dies in prison at age 82

In my book, I quote a former federal prosecutor saying that you can probe this case for 50 years and still not get to all the truths, but Picard isn’t interested in that. It’s been his only bankruptcy case since four days after Bernie’s arrest in 2008. He is ferocious towards net winners who won’t return funds, but he can be a soft teddy bear with those who don’t have the money for him to claw back. He may let them pay it over time, or he’ll take someone’s house but leave them a life interest in it.

AN: What do you think people get most wrong about Madoff?

RB: A lot of people who lost money get it wrong by blaming him entirely, rather than looking in the mirror and asking themselves how they could have put themselves in such danger. Madoff’s consistent and high returns were simply not possible. Even so, many net losers think the government owes them because the SEC didn’t capture Bernie. But that agency’s mandate has never been to protect people from stupid investment decisions.

Financier Bernard Madoff arrives at Manhattan Federal court on March 12, 2009 in New York City. Madoff is scheduled to enter a guilty plea on 11 felony counts which under federal law can result in a sentence of about 150 years. (Photo by Stephen Chernin/Getty Images)

Stephen Chernin | Getty Images

I mentioned to you that I went to a prison back in the ’90s to visit the guy who had the longest-running Ponzi prior to Madoff’s arrest. Just like Bernie, that swindler could not have done it without a big bank’s complicity. In that case — an 11-year-long Ponzi — an investor reached out to the SEC to complain that he’d lost money even though he’d been guaranteed a preposterous 20-25% return. The scamster was arrested the following day.

In Bernie’s case, not a single investor over the half-century of his fraud contacted the SEC. They were too busy splashing around in the gravy.

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Trump admin seeks Education Department layoff ban lifted

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A demonstrator speaks through a megaphone during a Defend Our Schools rally to protest U.S. President Donald Trump’s executive order to shut down the U.S. Department of Education, outside its building in Washington, D.C., U.S., March 21, 2025.

Kent Nishimura | Reuters

The Trump administration on Friday asked the Supreme Court to lift a court order to reinstate U.S. Department of Education employees the administration had terminated as part of its efforts to dismantle the agency.

Officials for the administration are arguing to the high court that U.S. District Judge Myong Joun in Boston didn’t have the authority to require the Education Department to rehire the workers. More than 1,300 employees were affected by the mass layoffs.

The staff reduction “effectuates the Administration’s policy of streamlining the Department and eliminating discretionary functions that, in the Administration’s view, are better left to the States,” Solicitor General D. John Sauer wrote in the filing.

A federal appeals court had refused on Wednesday to lift the judge’s ruling.

In his May 22 preliminary injunction, Joun pointed out that the staff cuts led to the closure of seven out of 12 offices tasked with the enforcement of civil rights, including protecting students from discrimination on the basis of race and disability.

Meanwhile, the entire team that supervises the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, or FAFSA, was also eliminated, the judge said. (Around 17 million families apply for college aid each year using the form, according to higher education expert Mark Kantrowitz.)

The Education Dept. announced its reduction in force on March 11 that would have gutted the agency’s staff.

Two days later, 21 states — including Michigan, Nevada and New York — filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration for its staff cuts at the agency.

After President Donald Trump signed an executive order on March 20 aimed at dismantling the Education Department, more parties sued to save the department, including the American Federation of Teachers.

This is breaking news. Please refresh for updates.

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Health insurance coverage losses under House GOP tax, spending bill

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Fatcamera | E+ | Getty Images

The House tax and spending bill would push millions of Americans off health insurance rolls, as Republicans cut programs like Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act to fund priorities from President Donald Trump, including almost $4 trillion of tax cuts. 

The Congressional Budget Office, a nonpartisan legislative scorekeeper, projects about 11 million people would lose health coverage due to provisions in the House bill, if enacted in its current form. It estimates another 4 million or so would lose insurance due to expiring Obamacare subsidies, which the bill doesn’t extend.

The ranks of the uninsured would swell as a result of policies that would add barriers to access, raise insurance costs and deny benefits outright for some people like certain legal immigrants.  

The legislation, known as the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act,” may change as Senate Republicans now consider it. Health care cuts have proven to be a thorny issue. A handful of GOP senators — enough to torpedo the bill — don’t appear to back cuts to Medicaid, for example.

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The bill would add $2.4 trillion to the national debt over a decade, CBO estimates. That’s after cutting more than $900 billion from health care programs during that time, according to the Penn Wharton Budget Model.

The cuts are a sharp shift following incremental increases in the availability of health insurance and coverage over the past 50 years, including through Medicare, Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act, according to Alice Burns, associate director with KFF’s program on Medicaid and the uninsured.

“This would be the biggest retraction in health insurance that we’ve ever experienced,” Burns said. “That’s makes it really difficult to know how people, providers, states, would react.”

Here are the major ways the bill would increase the number of uninsured.

No population ‘safe’ from proposed Medicaid cuts

Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, R-La., pictured at a press conference after the House narrowly passed a bill forwarding President Donald Trump’s agenda on May 22 in Washington, DC.

Kevin Dietsch | Getty Images

Federal funding cuts to Medicaid will have broad implications, experts say.

“No population, frankly, is safe from a bill that cuts more than $800 billion over 10 years from Medicaid, because states will have to adjust,” said Allison Orris, senior fellow and director of Medicaid policy at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

The provision in the House proposal that would lead most people to lose Medicaid and therefore become uninsured would be new work requirements that would apply to states that expanded Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, according to Orris.

The work requirements would affect eligibility for individuals ages 19 to 64 who do not have a qualifying exemption. Affected individuals would need to demonstrate they worked or participated in qualifying activities for at least 80 hours per month.

States would also need to verify that applicants meet requirements for one or more consecutive months prior to coverage, while also conducting redeterminations at least twice per year to ensure individuals who are already covered still comply with the requirements.

CMS Administrator Dr. Oz: Major goal in Medicaid is to align the federal government with the states

In a Sunday interview with NBC News’ “Meet the Press,” House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., said “4.8 million people will not lose their Medicaid coverage unless they choose to do so,” while arguing the work requirements are not too “cumbersome.”

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated the work requirements would prompt 5.2 million adults to lose federal Medicaid coverage. While some of those may obtain coverage elsewhere, CBO estimates the change would increase the number of people without insurance by 4.8 million.

Those estimates may be understated because they do not include everyone who qualifies but fails to properly report their work hours or submit the appropriate paperwork if they qualify for an exemption, said KFF’s Burns.

Overall, 10.3 million would lose Medicaid, which would lead to 7.8 million people losing health insurance, Burns said.

Proposal creates state Medicaid funding challenges

Protect Our Care supporters display “Hands Off Medicaid” message in front of the White House ahead of President Trump’s address to Congress on March 4 in Washington, D.C. 

Paul Morigi | Getty Images Entertainment | Getty Images

While states have used health care provider taxes to generate funding for Medicaid, the House proposal would put a stop to using those levies in the future, Orris noted.

Consequently, with less revenue and federal support, states will face the tough choice of having to cut coverage or cut other parts of their state budget in order to maintain their Medicaid program, Orris said.

For example, home and community-based services could face cuts to preserve funding for mandatory benefits like inpatient and outpatient hospital care, she said.

The House proposal would also delay until 2035 two Biden-era eligibility rules that were intended to make Medicaid enrollment and renewal easier for people, especially older adults and individuals with disabilities, Burns said.

States would also have their federal matching rate for Medicaid expenditures reduced if they offer coverage to undocumented immigrants, she said.

Affordable Care Act cuts ‘wonky’ but ‘consequential’

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., speaks about the health care impacts of the Republican budget and policy bill, also known as the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act,” during a June 4 news conference in Washington, D.C.

Saul Loeb | Afp | Getty Images

More than 24 million people have health insurance through the Affordable Care Act marketplaces.  

They’re a “critical” source of coverage for people who don’t have access to health insurance at their jobs, including for the self-employed, low-paid workers and older individuals who don’t yet qualify for Medicare, according to researchers at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a left-leaning think tank.

The House legislation would “dramatically” reduce ACA enrollment — and, therefore, the number of people with insurance — due to the combined effect of several changes rather than one big proposal, wrote Drew Altman, president and chief executive of KFF, a nonpartisan health policy group.

“Many of the changes are technical and wonky, even if they are consequential,” Altman wrote.

Expiring ACA subsidies add to coverage costs

ACA enrollment is at an all-time high. Enrollment has more than doubled since 2020, which experts largely attribute to enhanced insurance subsidies offered by Democrats in the American Rescue Plan Act in 2021 and then extended through 2025 by the Inflation Reduction Act.

Those subsidies, called “premium tax credits,” effectively reduce consumers’ monthly premiums. (The credits can be claimed at tax time, or households can opt to get them upfront via lower premiums.)

Congress also expanded the eligibility pool for subsidies to more middle-income households, and reduced the maximum annual contribution households make toward premium payments, experts said. 

Sen. James Lankford: We do not have the votes to pass the House GOP bill as is

The enhanced subsidies lowered households’ premiums by $705 (or 44%) in 2024 — to $888 a year from $1,593, according to KFF.

The House Republican legislation doesn’t extend the enhanced subsidies, meaning they’d expire after this year.

About 4.2 million people will be uninsured in 2034 if the expanded premium tax credit expires, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

“They might just decide not to get [coverage] because they simply can’t afford to insure themselves,” said John Graves, a professor of health policy and medicine at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine. 

Coverage will become more expensive for others who remain in a marketplace plan: The typical family of four with income of $65,000 will pay $2,400 more per year without the enhanced premium tax credit, CBPP estimates.

Adding red tape to eligibility, enrollment

More than 3 million people are expected to lose Affordable Care Act coverage as a result of other provisions in the House legislation, CBO projects.

Other “big” changes include broad adjustments to eligibility, said Kent Smetters, professor of business economics and public policy at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School. 

For example, the bill shortens the annual open enrollment period by about a month, to Dec. 15, instead of Jan. 15 in most states. 

It ends automatic re-enrollment into health insurance — used by more than half of people who renewed coverage in 2025 — by requiring all enrollees to take action to continue their coverage each year, CBPP said.

Senate Majority Leader Sen. John Thune (R-SD) (C) speak alongside Sen. John Barrasso (R-WY) (L) and Sen. Mike Crapo (R-ID) (R) outside the White House on June 4, 2025. The Senators met with President Donald Trump to discuss Trump’s “One, Big, Beautiful Bill” and the issues some members within the Republican Senate have with the legislation and its cost.

Anna Moneymaker | Getty Images News | Getty Images

The bill also bars households from receiving subsidies or cost-sharing reductions until after they verify eligibility details like income, immigration status, health coverage status and place of residence, according to KFF.

Graves says adding administrative red tape to health plans is akin to driving an apple cart down a bumpy road. 

“The bumpier you make the road, the more apples will fall off the cart,” he said. 

Uncapping subsidy repayments

Another biggie: The bill would eliminate repayment caps for premium subsidies. 

Households get federal subsidies by estimating their annual income for the year, which dictates their total premium tax credit. They must repay any excess subsidies during tax season, if their annual income was larger than their initial estimate. 

Current law caps repayment for many households; but the House bill would require all premium tax credit recipients to repay the full amount of any excess, no matter their income, according to KFF.

While such a requirement sounds reasonable, it’s unreasonable and perhaps even “cruel” in practice, said KFF’s Altman.

“Income for low-income people can be volatile, and many Marketplace consumers are in hourly wage jobs, run their own businesses, or stitch together multiple jobs, which makes it challenging, if not impossible, for them to perfectly predict their income for the coming year,” he wrote. 

Curtailing use by immigrants

The House bill also limits marketplace insurance eligibility for some groups of legal immigrants, experts said. 

Starting Jan. 1, 2027, many lawfully present immigrants such as refugees, asylees and people with Temporary Protected Status would be ineligible for subsidized insurance on ACA exchanges, according to KFF.

Additionally, the bill would bar Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals recipients in all states from buying insurance over ACA exchanges.

DACA recipients — a subset of the immigrant population known as “Dreamers” — are currently considered “lawfully present” for purposes of health coverage. That makes them eligible to enroll (and get subsidies and cost-sharing reductions) in 31 states plus the District of Columbia.

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How to review your insurance policy

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PUNTA GORDA – OCTOBER 10: In this aerial view, a person walks through flood waters that inundated a neighborhood after Hurricane Milton came ashore on October 10, 2024, in Punta Gorda, Florida. The storm made landfall as a Category 3 hurricane in the Siesta Key area of Florida, causing damage and flooding throughout Central Florida. (Photo by Joe Raedle/Getty Images)

Joe Raedle | Getty Images News | Getty Images

It’s officially hurricane season, and early forecasts indicate it’s poised to be an active one.

Now is the time to take a look at your homeowners insurance policy to ensure you have enough and the right kinds of coverage, experts say — and make any necessary changes if you don’t.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration predicts a 60% chance of “above-normal” Atlantic hurricane activity during this year’s season, which spans from June 1 to November 30.

The agency forecasts 13 to 19 named storms with winds of 39 mph or higher. Six to 10 of those could become hurricanes, including three to five major hurricanes of Category 3, 4, or 5.

You should pay close attention to your insurance policies.

Charles Nyce

risk management and insurance professor at Florida State University

Hurricanes can cost billions of dollars worth of damages. Experts at AccuWeather estimate that last year’s hurricane season cost $500 billion in total property damage and economic loss, making the season “one of the most devastating and expensive ever recorded.”

“Take proactive steps now to make a plan and gather supplies to ensure you’re ready before a storm threatens,” Ken Graham, NOAA’s national weather service director, said in the agency’s report.

Part of your checklist should include reviewing your insurance policies and what coverage you have, according to Charles Nyce, a risk management and insurance professor at Florida State University. 

“Besides being ready physically by having your radio, your batteries, your water … you should pay close attention to your insurance policies,” said Nyce.

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You want to know four key things: the value of property at risk, how much a loss could cost you, whether you’re protected in the event of flooding and if you have enough money set aside in case of emergencies, he said.

Bob Passmore, the department vice president of personal lines at the American Property Casualty Insurance Association, agreed: “It’s really important to review your policy at least annually, and this is a good time to do it.”

Insurers often suspend policy changes and pause issuing new policies when there’s a storm bearing down. So acting now helps ensure you have the right coverage before there’s an urgent need.

Here are three things to consider about your home insurance policy going into hurricane season, according to experts.

1. Review your policy limits

2. Check your deductibles

Take a look at your deductibles, or the amount you have to pay out of pocket upfront if you file a claim, experts say.

For instance, if you have a $1,000 deductible on your policy and submit a claim for $8,000 of storm coverage, your insurer will pay $7,000 toward the cost of repairs, according to a report by NerdWallet. You’re responsible for the remaining $1,000.

A common way to lower your policy premium is by increasing your deductibles, Passmore said. 

Raising your deductible from $1,000 to $2,500 can save you an average 12% on your premium, per NerdWallet’s research.

But if you do that, make sure you have the cash on hand to absorb the cost after a loss, Passmore said.

Why the U.S. has a home insurance crisis

Don’t stop at your standard policy deductible. Look over hazard-specific provisions such as a wind deductible, which is likely to kick in for hurricane damage.

Wind deductibles are an out-of-pocket cost that is usually a percentage of the value of your policy, said Nyce. As a result, they can be more expensive than your standard deductible, he said. 

If a homeowner opted for a 2% deductible on a $500,000 house, their out-of-pocket costs for wind damages can go up to $10,000, he said.

“I would be very cautious about picking larger deductibles for wind,” he said.

3. Assess if you need flood insurance

Floods are usually not covered by a homeowners insurance policy. If you haven’t yet, consider buying a separate flood insurance policy through the National Flood Insurance Program by the Federal Emergency Management Agency or through the private market, experts say. 

It can be worth it whether you live in a flood-prone area or not: Flooding causes 90% of disaster damage every year in the U.S., according to FEMA.

In 2024, Hurricane Helene caused massive flooding in mountainous areas like Asheville in Buncombe County, North Carolina. Less than 1% of households there were covered by the NFIP, according to a recent report by the Swiss Re Institute. 

If you decide to get flood insurance with the NFIP, don’t buy it at the last minute, Nyce said. There’s usually a 30-day waiting period before the new policy goes into effect. 

“You can’t just buy it when you think you’re going to need it like 24, 48 or 72 hours before the storm makes landfall,” Nyce said. “Buy it now before the storms start to form.” 

Make sure you understand what’s protected under the policy. The NFIP typically covers up to $250,000 in damages to a residential property and up to $100,000 on the contents, said Loretta Worters, a spokeswoman for the Insurance Information Institute.

If you expect more severe damage to your house, ask an insurance agent about excess flood insurance, Nyce said.

Such flood insurance policies are written by private insurers that cover losses over and above what’s covered by the NFIP, he said.

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